Why doesn't the tournament creator get the gp for every entry? Only get once per player.

This is along the lines of jeffs point that tournaments are too expensive to run - either reduce the cost to make - or let the maker get more gp back?

I guess the problem is some people have too many GP's. I need a way to get them back... otherwise GP's will become worthless. Although it is possible to make GP's after a tournament ends, normally you don't. making tournaments is more for fun than anything. Obviously if you are done editing your tournament and are happy with it, send me a message and I'll add it to the offical rotation. From then on, anytime your game is automatically started, you get free GP's.

Some people are approaching 100,000 GP's... :/

The rich get richer :)

I am guessing those people with high gp have either made a lot of tournaments - or due to their experience level are winning a lot of tournaments.

I have rarely been above 1000 gp - and if I make a tournament it is normally around 500gp to start for 20 players - if I use a reasonable price like 10 gp - I only see 200gp back.

For me the fix would be to get all of the entry gp - if someone enters 1000 times then I see that income and would make a profit on the tournament.

Do 5% of the people have 95% of the wealth?

I don't have the numbers right ow, but ya, 5% probably do have 95% of the wealth.

So what I need is a way to take from the rich and give to the poor. Give map creators more GP will only make the rich richer cause they make the majority of the tournaments.

I am open to all ideas.

Make your next multiplayer game Texas hold'em?

:)

Well, to take from the rich and give to the poor, let every newbie (level 5 and under) run 2 tounaments. They have 2 so if they sorta mess up on the first one (outrageous price, impossible creeps) they can fix it on the second one.

you want to make the rich spend their money?

easy!

here one little idea, Value:

first, in the community, next to the gp currently having, put the Value rating,

second, put a shop on the site, we could buy some(expensive)Trophie , like the "Super Metal Slime" for a price of 10k of gp, and a rarity of 1k

and if you want to make sure that the rich buy them, put a criteria in the tournament

we have the level need, we could have a value need

taht way, the rich will get more reasonable, and they will have new tournament

you could also make a trophie room ,

thats not all, but thats a lot, hope you give your opinion!

making tournies makes poor since the reward is per player. the Only one that got me more back as it costed was that 150 gp-entry tournament... and some people got angry about that map.

but there is a good way to spend these gps, if someone has too much.
MainstreaM gave a great example by buying a 26'000gp replay of mine to support my activity.

to spread this idea to finance your favourite map creator (different than through replays) add a donate gp on the profile pages and/or in the lobby of custom maps. with a lable like "support this map creator" and a popup similar to the 'set replay cost'

cheers

Eklispe, what if someone made a lot of count to try a lot of tournament for free?

I'm one of the Top10 in Most Geek Points (currently holding) with ~32K. My point of view on the various ways to spend GPs:

- entering tournaments - with my balance the difference between 15 and 150 GP entry fee is close to 0, I don't have enough time to spend my GPs simply playing tournaments.

- buying replays - some people ask for too much, but they get 0. I've never hesitated to pay up to 100-200 even for a lower score than mine, just out of curiosity.

- creating tournaments - I have several ideas, but not enough time/patience to create exciting maps+creep waves. I'll try to focus more on this, when ready will run several free (or if not possible - 1GP) tournaments.

- donations - suggested many times, but always person-to-person. That's good, but how about "sponsoring a map"? For example a tournament I like has a 10 GP entry fee. I give 1000 GP to make it cheaper, let's say from 10 to 2 GP, so more people can play and by doing so increase the competition. It always makes me sad when people say things like "Oh, that's too expensive, I want to play but can't afford it...".

- buying things (not implemented, but I think it is a good idea) - artifacts that can be traded and give you something extra, like
* The Thunder of Zeus (kills a random creep every X seconds)
* The Purse of Bill Gates (gives you X$ every $Y seconds)
and so on... If there are various artifacts but make it possible to use only 3 at a time will be fun and the advantage gained won't be huge, but might make a difference.
I know this sounds like some computer games (HOMM) ;)

And my apologies that I didn't actually comment on the topic.

I think that with about 75% of the max players, the map creator should be able to recover his losses. And with 100% - pocket some.

About the multiple entries - yes, but maybe not the full amount from the firs one. For example if player plays a map 7 times and the creator gets:
50% + 25% + 15% + 10% + 5% + 4% + 3%
of the fee.

[part 1 of 2]

apparently i'm sitting at #5 with 47k so here are my thoughts.

how did i get here... my best guess is that i decided to grind boards for xp. this means that i played almost every single tourney that came up just to grind xp. didn't matter if i got 1st or 30th, i still got xp. under this style of play both my xp and my Gp was constantly coming in. the BIG difference is that my xp was being "spent" every time made a level and my Gp just kept accumulating. fast forward 2.5 months and now i have a messload of Gp.

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the rich get richer:

no... i don't really think so. sparticus has the ability to KNOW exactly if the statement is true or not (and i have no idea what residual creators of official maps get) but i do know that if i look at the top 10 Gp players on the community page, i really do not see the active map makers. a look at every public tourney right now does not have a single one of us listed. it is my guess that if you saw the players with the least Gp (over lvl 10 or so) you will find your active map makers. i have seen some of the most active map makers selling their replays of a map for large sums with the request in tournament comments for someone to buy it so they can make it again. if they do not have enough Gp to start their next tourney, then they are not "rich."

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how to spend gp (following chesty's list):

entering tourneys - entering every single tourney never put a dent in my Gp low level or high level. i do not think that the recent trend of charging more and more to enter a tourney is the right answer. i think it is a trend that has a negative impact on the site as a whole but i think the very subject of this thread is what is causing it... map makers trying to at least break even.

buying replays - i sometimes buy scores lower than mine like cheaty or even replays of a tourney i haven't even tried just to see what the creeps look like (lordcrumb.) this spending is never going to put a dent in my Gp either.

creating tourneys - well... i have never started one despite having 7 of them drafted up. one reason is that i can not bring myself to publish a tourney without thoroughly testing it and the other is i know it is a losing game. it is well documented in these forums that everyone who makes tourneys loses Gp with them. more on this below in part 2 of 2.

donations - this is a brilliant idea with many suggestion and i support it strongly the way things are now (players losing money making maps.) on one hand i like the idea of "supporting" the good map makers and on the other hand i would like to "tip" someone who does something extraordinary like the storyline maps recently.

[edit] if we are able to support the good map makers then it would be really nice to see who made the tourney in the game selection page :D

[edit2] credit to Kenny87 for the storyline maps.

buying things - i was going to introduce this idea but others already have. this is my number one recommendation both keep the stored Gp down for sparticus and to enhance the site at the same time!!! this kind of goes back to my original point of the xp gets spent as i level up and the Gp doesn't. why can we not spend our Gp on items, artifacts, towers, extra level points, etc.. yes i said towers. perhaps everyone would only start with 3 common TD standards (pellet, canon, rapid.) then everyone will be constantly spending their Gp as soon as they have enough to buy X. perhaps we could buy a fictitious item like a trophy (similar to carlnini's idea) where you could allocate trophies like we currently allocate level points for the different things we can "buy" with Gp. cheaty's suggestion of only 3 artifacts would fit well into this design too. tourneys could have trophy requirements put on them the same way lvl limitations are currently done.

moving level points - well, i guess i could spend 600 Gp every time i wanted to move 12 level points to "harder creeps" and back to where they came from so i can win juggling or easy maps where you release everything into a few fully upgraded boom towers, but that never appealed to me.

[part 2 of 2]

creating tourneys part 2:

help the map makers. there is another thread on this point but i want to quickly suggest map makers being able to make free private tourneys with NO rewards for the sole sake of testing maps before they go public.

i personal believe that map makers should be encouraged as much as possible and not discouraged. for this reason i am going to suggest that making tourneys be FREE or at least for a flat fee. there are definitely concerns that need to be addressed but there are other ways of doing it besides monetizing the process. i feel like the "nickel and diming" the creator to death with every little tweak makes them worry about what it is going to cost them more than what is going to make a good tourney! just put in caps on certain items or create a point system to place in the critical areas so they can not be abused or set to obnoxious levels. also caps can be put on how many tourneys players can make in a given time period based on their level combined with previous success at making good tourneys or even have a tourney creator lvl.

how else do we encourage map makers... reward them for the good tourneys. if they are free to make, then perhaps reward them incrementally based on some formula like the current participation payouts are based on once a minimum level is met to deem it a "good tourney." if they have to pay a flat fee, then make it reasonably easy to earn their flat fee back if the tourney reached the "good tourney" requirements and reward them with diminishing returns for exceeding the requirement to break even. if someone makes a clicking contest that everyone avoids then they should lose money to learn not to do that any more. if someone spends a lot of time making a real quality tourney, then they should be rewarded for spending that time.

final encouragement for map makers should be xp. if a player has 4 hours to spend on the site and they choose to make a quality tourney thoroughly testing it, then why should they not be able to earn some of the xp they gave up by not playing.

if a "buying things" aspect is put into this site, and Gp can actually be earned for creating quality tourneys, then more quality map makers will have incentive for stepping forward and spending the time.

---
double edge sword:

the question becomes how can sparticus implement a lot of the suggestions above without being really unfair to certain players. we do not want the broke tourney creators to be way behind because they were not previously rewarded for their time and we do not want the hoarders like myself to have a giant advantage. my suggestion, especially with a "buying things" aspect would be a soft reset. everyone would retain their current level and Gp should be rewarded based on the amount that someone with that much experience would have earned based on the same exponential curve that leveling is based on. while sparticus' first reaction might be to cringe at the massive Gp handout, it is really no different than if the game was complete reset and you fast forwarded to everyone being at their current level. also everyone would immediately spend almost all of it on the new items or trophies in my earlier example.

a complete reset on the other hand would incite a bunch of anger and massive attrition as i have seen time and time again.

---
all of the above are nothing more than my humble ideas and suggestions.

Lan

thanks ladronn. this lead me to a idea that could solve the problems.

with your 2nd part working (little tweaking possiblibly required) the following big chanche could work:

the 'things to buy' (you called it trophies) ar allready there. customisation points. what would change is, that you'd have to rent those poits, not buy. a example in numbers: if i had to pay 10 Gps per point AND tournament (not every try on the same tournamet, but everytime it starts new) i'd have to pay 380 for entering a new map fully supported by my max customisation points available, wich would possibly succeed the amount of gps rewarded, but would help to rank higher --> get more xp and fame. this means, the customisation points allowed in a map must be visualized in the turnament lobby, or the other other way, the points on those disabled features don't get charged for.
so the rich get richer problem would be solved.

about the idea of creating tournamets for free and a rewarding system: the basics are allready there. the ranking system. to get the following idea working, rating the own map should be disabled.
if a map has a average rating under 5 stars (or 15 stars for the 3 creterias summed up) the creator shall pay for every star missing lets say 30 gp (10 for the summed up way), so a map with 3x only 1 star would cost 12 x 10 = 120 Gps, as a maximum of possible loss. and the calculated max reward for 3 times 10 stars: 15 x 10 = 150 gps forward. and a map with no rating gets no charge or reward.

about the double edged sword: i can speak only for me, but i would not care. the game is beta, so... i'd find it a fair solution to reset all to level number x 500 gps (or even less, like 200 gp per level). a fine start for most players to invest in renting customisation points.

all together it wouldpbrovide a charging/rewarding system that would work perfectly and would not require to invent trophies etc. this amount of time shoud be spent to create new towers and power ups ;). i hope this can be coded with a reasonable effort, and that you all can see a working system in this idea (that grew with posts of several geeks)

i realize that the customisation points Must be visualized, the other way (simply not getting charged for) doesn't work properly if you have not enough Gps to enter with the amount of points filled in. imagine the necessary check and its eventual appearing message that says "you dont have enough gp to start with all your customisation points. please remove *number* points to enter this tournament". if you remove some of those kind which are disabled, the message would still appear and confuse the geek...